From - Thu Feb 27 09:48:20 2003 Subject: Manson's Maze: Step 1 - Room 1 Hey John! Since the busy Christmas/winter months are pretty much over, I've had some extra time to look into the Maze. Specifically, I've been looking more in-depth for those room-to-room clues. Some of the following thoughts may seem to be stretching it a little bit, but bear with me (and check the book!). A few have been previously posted as well. I've also added some notes on mythology, and would certainly appreciate additions to these lists if anyone finds anything else. (I'll send each room separately for ease of reference.) Beq S. Step 1 - Room 1 - In the text: Story = story, Late = tale, Nary = yarn. There is nothing referencing Fable. - The numbers on the incorrect doors can be added/subtracted to equal each other. For instance, 20 + 21 = 41. Alternately 41 - 20 = 21. However, 26 cannot be figured with any of the other numbers to equal another number in the room. - It seems that the pictures on the doors should serve some purpose; why would he simply stick them there? Couple ideas. #21 - apple #41 - bottle #26 - cup #20 - drum a) Sign under door 21 could be interpreted as "C", or cup, or door #26 b) The word "decision" is said three times & 3 people are mentioned in the text; "C" is the third letter in the alphabet = cup = door #26. One reason I think these may be real clues is the fact that the letters for the doors are backwards/opposite from normal reading, R to L instead of L to R. If you were to simply count 3 doors according to normal L to R, you would get 41, a wrong room. Step 2 - Room 26 NUMBERS - Counting the "stage lights(?)", or the boxes on the front of the stage, there are 15 showing as 2 are blocked by 2 people in the seats. 2 x 15 = 30, the correct room. - Additionally, there are 3 "real" devils on the stage, with one that is fake, or null, or 0. Put them together to get 30. I think this is intentional, as the devils are referenced in the text. - The false rooms seem to be pointed to by devil tails, hats ot the trident, and nothing is pointing towards room 30. MYTHOLOGY Not specific to room 30 and also noted before, SALT+A = ATLAS backwards. Though not a very satisfactory explanation of the room, Atlas is a Moon around Saturn. However, the trident appears to point to Poseidon, who/which apparently has nothing to do with Saturn in astronomy, but mythology instead. As we see throughout the book, many things point directly to mythology. "After the overthrow of Cronos, his three sons divided the world between them: Zeus took the sky, Hades the underworld and Poseidon the sea, while the land was ruled by all three. " (from...http://swishweb.com/Religion_and_Mythology/Greek_and_Roman_Myth/P/relmyth14grmp.htm) Referring to the above, it seems easy enough to deduct that: Planets = Zeus Devils = Hades (or Pluto) Trident = Poseidon Also, the salt shaker and "A" are in-between "heaven" and the "earth or sea", seemingly pointing to Atlas bearing the weight of the sky on his shoulders. If so, this seems to help determine which myth the author points to, as Atlas is also known for carrying the world. This does create a slight problem though. If this room and its pictures show Atlas to carry the sky, not the world, then the "well-known" solution to the Maze is null and void, as it directly goes against this explanation. (Not that I would really mind, as the "well-known" solution is not necessarily satisfactory.) Most of the reference material I've checked refers to the sky. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a distinct difference between Roman or Greek mythology on this point, as interpretations differ from account to account. But if there is a difference in Greek/Roman mythology, the list in Room 15 might help us out. The names listed are pretty much interchangeable between Greek and Roman myths, except for Ulysses. He is known as Ulysses ONLY in Roman reference, and as Odysseus in Greek literature. (Several sources back this up, including Swishweb.com) The soldiers helmet shown looks to be Roman headgear. This would lead to a conclusion that mythology referenced to in the book is Roman, not Greek. Anyone have discussion on this? (Please?) Step 3 - Room 30 - Going by order in the alpabet, F=6, O=15 & U=21. 6+15+21 = 42. Note: O & U are referenced in the text. It may mean to use them as Y+O+U, but could also point them out specifically to be used. O by itself is 15, but not when put together with U, which seems to be the "architects" intent. It also seems to me that when something is referenced by the text, it's meant to be used or counted a couple different ways. - 4 + 2 = 6 (F); of course, 1 + 5 also = 6. - 7 letters on the sign x 6 (F) = 42 ("times" is mentioned in text, perhaps pointing to multiplication.) - IF NO EVE can be rearrange to ONE FIVE, but it is still pointing to the wrong door. - There is specifically nothing pointing to Door 42. Arrows point to #5 and #15, and #34 is mentioned in the text. Except for an apparent "Garden of Eden" theme(?), there doesn't seem to be anything else here. Perhaps deeper study will reveal something more. Step 4 - Room 42 - First off, this confirms your trip from Room 30 as the "opened one of the doors" to go out and the door to/from Room 30 is already open. Also, this leaves "4" doors possible. - Pairs on the doors denote the room is divisible by 2, leaving 22 & 4. - Coat = 4, Tusk = 4, Claw = 4, all mentioned in the text. Question: The bear in the corner is not shown with tusks, nor can I find a type of bear that has tusks. Why is the tusk used, if not to point to "4"? There is a hint of an elephant with the umbrella/cane holder, but it is not taxidermy, nor is it in a corner. - 4 feet in the picture at the top of the room, 4 lines on the sign, 4 bear claws holding sign (visible only in the actual book), etc. - For a while i thought "salt" and (pepper) "mill" pointed to 4, but the "pear" and "dice" also point to 4. The scissors do not, unless the count of letters are divided by 2. - Stretching it, I'm sure...S & P are "4" letters apart in the alphabet. - Dice on the door: 2 x 2 = 4, 1 + 3 = 4; don't have dice, so what's the extra 1 supposed to be? Step 5 - Room 4 This room was hard to figure out...till I got going on it. - Count wood. There are 9 pieces of wood, counting whole logs as 1 (=3), split pieces each as 1 (=4), and the 1/2 split piece as 2. Because the 1/2 split piece is on a "main base", count this one as 2, two separate times. 2 together with 9 = 29. I also think the ax still being stuck in the wood is an additional symbol that the wood should be used twice. - Get a load of this...I couldn't believe it when I saw this. I don't think this has been completely figured out before, my apologies if this is old news. (Manson obviously does not waste any space in these pictures!!) There a main theme that there are two sides to everything. Flipping a coin (text), 2 & 2 go together (picture on the left), 2 nails in the wood, 2 sides to the gavel OR 2 sides to justice: guilty/not guilty, candle can be dark (as shown) or lit (hence the matches). It's been said this refers to flipping the book in Room 29 to find Room 17. Hmm, maybe that too, but not the main point, I'm sure. Holding the book at a 90 degree angle to the R or L, you see either "773" or "ELL" on the maze map on the right. 2 sides of the map, 2 possible choices. But instead of PICKING a side, let's use both. Using alphabet order again: E = 5, L = 12; 5 + 12 + 12 = 29. Using the numbers as is: 7 + 7 + 3 = 17; THIS is your very obvious clue to finding 17 in the next room. This definitely also explains the picture of "2 & 2 go together" on the left. Hi John, ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, I'm done sending what I've figured out so far. I'm excited to keep going and figure out the rest of the rooms. It seems to me there are plenty of obvious clues to finding each room without having to figure it out by mapping out the rooms. You just have to figure them all out. Let me know what you think of my notes...if they're plausible or far-fetched. I'm taking it that you did some kind of search for "shaking spear" and found the passage in Job 41:29. While leviathan would seem a semi-reasonable solution, and actually would be pretty sneaky, nothing else in the room really points to that passage. I would think that Manson would have given clues such as using doors 18 (Job is the 18th book in the Bible) 41 & 29, none of which appear here. Plus, there's all that mythology stuff in the book. (Course, that could be a blinder.) While I think the final question, the one everyone seems satisfied with, is crap, I think it very likely that WILL is the word meant by the items on the table and is in the riddle of Room 45. Using Woodrow Wilson and William Shakespeare together as he did, Manson was a genius. This is why I cannot believe that the riddle and answer is something about what Atlas holds on his shoulders and it must be the world. Whatever!! That's not even a riddle close to worthy of Manson's creativity. Some person just figured out the Atlas thing in room 26, couldn't let it go and made up some ridiculous question to go with it. Good grief, look at room 4. I could not believe how absolutely ingenius it was to use 773 for one room, then backwards to ELL for the next. That blew me away, and I bet there's even additional uses for this piece of the puzzle. Besides, the riddle is in Room 45, not on the path. Unless there were additional clues given by the author or publisher that some extra question was to be found on the shortest path, my copy of the book clearly states that the ANSWER to Room 45 is on the shortest path, not another riddle. I'm not sure why everyone would so blindly accept this other "answer" when it obviously goes against everything the book says. The other possible side to this is that the guide has purposely mixed the two up to confuse us further, in which case the answer would be in room 45 and the question on the path. But even IF this were the case, the current "solution" still cannot hold any credibility as it still violates the "rules" set. As you can tell, I'm pretty ticked off about the bogus solution. *laugh* I just wish people would pay attention to the details in front of them instead of always being led away by one or two people who don't have a clue. It'd be a lot easier if everyone could put their minds together to solve the book instead of forgetting it because they think it's already solved. As a side note, there are 17 rooms on the shortest path, with 16 steps between each room. Already well noted and documented. If you look at a map of hell according to Dante's descriptions in the Divine Comedy, it also takes 16 steps from the top to the bottom (9 circles total) and back. While looking at all the maps and discussion on how the Maze "map" is laid out, I haven't seen one yet that tries to layer the rooms on top of each other. This might be an interesting hypothysis. The Divine Comedy also references several mythological creatures, but I'm not far enough through the book to really get a feel for whether it's the source for the Maze or not. I have found several references to the Aeneid, where Aeneas (son of a mortal and Venus) also travels to the Underworld. Haven't been able to get a copy of that book yet to see. The only problem I see with it (without having the book) is that Aeneas apparently doesn't go all the way through to the bottom of hell, which would create a problem with the 16 step theory. Well, so much for a short dissertation on your tidbit. Let me know what your thoughts are on anything I've said here or in the rooms. Thanks bunches, John! Beq S.